tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3423725371920868922.post7815847383025507894..comments2024-03-27T13:28:18.163-04:00Comments on Balter's Blog: Abuse of workers and animals: Is it Kosher?Michael Balterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08311614050647338141noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3423725371920868922.post-22198491123431046672008-08-03T03:56:00.000-04:002008-08-03T03:56:00.000-04:00Sometimes I blow my top before I've read the detai...Sometimes I blow my top before I've read the details. I've just followed through on the Rabbi Amy Eilberg link in Michael's blog, and the other links from that, and I'm duly horrified.<BR/><BR/>- pregnant women not allowed to pee? - dreadful<BR/>- nearly 400 people aarrested and imprisoned because they were seduced by ads in Mexican newspapers? - dreadful<BR/>- Conservative, Reform and Orthodox Jews in America all squabbling about who has rights to determine kashrut? - dreadful<BR/>- the Rubashkin brothers http://tinyurl.com/6c7zsj<BR/>in New York (safely x000 miles from their Iowa 'investment') look like cartoon Jews from any Arabic or Nazi newspaper - maybe some of those depictions are justified by this case.<BR/><BR/>But all this is a storm in a teacup against what is going on in 'Greater Israel' right now.<BR/><BR/>See the B'Tselem site<BR/>http://tinyurl.com/5lklg7<BR/><BR/>Maybe Conservative, Reform and Orthodox Jews in America should be discussing what's being done to 1.5 million Palestinans in Gaza instead of getting themselves all worked up about 400 people exploited in Iowa.Richard Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11726482358889849398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3423725371920868922.post-58925843095280681112008-08-01T17:25:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:25:00.000-04:00Michael, Richard, ttryt, and all:I don't want to g...Michael, Richard, ttryt, and all:<BR/><BR/>I don't want to get into a "religious war" here, but I think the issues Michael riases(and raised even more) by Rabbi Amy Eiler(I think that's her name) have much broader applications than just being Jewish, Muslim, Christian, etc. This is why the situation in Postville(which I've been following with some interest) is so <B><I>awful</I></B>: the people are not only doing "degrading" work, they have been exploited in various ways, because bein "illegal immigrants", they have no power of leverage, and some people don't even quite consider them human! This should be an affront to <B><I>anyone's</I></B> ethical standards, regardless of what religious tradition --- if any --- they come from. I do find it inspiring, however, that there are plenty of Jews who will speak up for the oppressed, from their own religious understanding, and go to bat for them, as part of what they consider to be a religious obligation. It gives me some hope for the future, since "all" religionists" aren't a bunch of Bible-toting, gun-loving whack-job, but real people, wrestling with real-world problems and trying to make the world a better place than they found it.<BR/>Anne GAnne Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03045500116098233731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3423725371920868922.post-91503764113079406732008-08-01T17:00:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:00:00.000-04:00Richard asked, "Would you like to be the first per...Richard asked, "Would you like to be the first person to 'process' a recent, still-warm corpse?" I grew up on a farm and worked in a slaughterhouse for several years during university holidays so I've done it. I don't like killing but I like meat, someone has to kill and dress the product. <BR/><BR/>I'm neither Jewish nor Muslim ( I live pork) but I can understand the probable reasoning behind kosher and halal rituals; some sort of respect for the life of the animal to be killed. <BR/><BR/>I think in the present case what we all have trouble with is that the ritual has become meaningless and is used to justify cruelty before the killing, not to mention the exploitation of the workers.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3423725371920868922.post-80801002556538462342008-08-01T12:57:00.000-04:002008-08-01T12:57:00.000-04:00I think it becomes a Jewish issue if Jews, like me...I think it becomes a Jewish issue if Jews, like me and others (see link below) want to hold other Jews to certain standards and values, especially in the definition of something key to our religion and ethnic identity like the rules of kosher. There are plenty of non-Jewish vilains in the world, but when Jews do ill it reflects badly on all of us--that is also why so many Jews dissociate themselves from Israeli government policies too.<BR/><BR/>Click here for Jews who feel the same way:<BR/><BR/>http://oreaddaily.blogspot.com/2008/07/jews-challenge-mistreatment-and.htmlMichael Balterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08311614050647338141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3423725371920868922.post-12350034995198226282008-08-01T10:15:00.000-04:002008-08-01T10:15:00.000-04:00Mind you -you're criticizing kosher vs halal, as i...Mind you -you're criticizing kosher vs halal, as in:<BR/><BR/>"The Answer, and from His is the truth and rectitude. <BR/><BR/>The conditions for an Islamic slaughter are as follows: <BR/><BR/>1) The slaughterer’s being Muslim. <BR/><BR/>2) That Allah’s name is taken at the time of slaughter. <BR/><BR/>3) That are cut. <BR/><BR/>If a single one of these conditions is not meant, the slaughter could not be considered Islamic. <BR/><BR/>It is understood from the methods of machine cuts presented in the question that the machine does not slaughter all of the chickens at once, but rather one after the other. <BR/> <BR/>In this situation, if a Muslim presses the button (to activate the machine) saying bismillah, the first chicken slaughtered would become halal whilst the following chickens to be slaughtered by (the machine activated) that initial pressing of the button would be haram. This is because in such a situation, it is (still) imperative that bismillah be pronounced prior to the slaughter of each chicken. Merely standing close to the machine and saying Allahu Akbar or, similarly, simply placing a hand on the machine would not be sufficient to render the animal slaughtered halal.<BR/><BR/>http://www.shariahprogram.ca/eat-halal-foods/islamic-slaughter-conditions.shtml<BR/><BR/>So what's the difference between shariah and kosher practices ? <BR/><BR/>We Europeans don't go through the practice of cutting the throat, windpipe and jugular veins. We just stun them.<BR/><BR/>Who's worse?<BR/><BR/>regards<BR/><BR/>RichardRichard Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11726482358889849398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3423725371920868922.post-16984648675812234242008-08-01T09:43:00.000-04:002008-08-01T09:43:00.000-04:00This is a very good story, but it ain't Jewish. Ev...This is a very good story, but it ain't Jewish. Every single slaughterhouse in the land is nasty, dirty, cruel, and unfeeling. Would you like to be the first person to 'process' a recent, still-warm corpse?<BR/><BR/>...<BR/><BR/>I thought not. <BR/><BR/>So you have to employ someone who can't afford to have 'feelings' and then you can treat your employees as you like, because thay can't afford to leave - perfectly normal.<BR/><BR/>It's universal in that business; to suggest that Jews do it worse is nonsense, or more than a little bit biased. <BR/><BR/>Mind you though, if you'd had evidence that pigs were amongst all this very bloody animal slaughter (which they probably are) you might have had a good storybest <BR/><BR/>regards<BR/><BR/>Richard Parker<BR/>Siargao Island, Philippines<BR/><BR/>http://smallislandnotes.blogspot.com/<BR/>www.coconutstudio.com<BR/>http://austronesiancounting.wordpress.com/Richard Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11726482358889849398noreply@blogger.com